The Sandy Hook Initiative-UPDATED
Michigan Law to Expand CCW into Schools was a headline I recently found. Tennessee Marine Father Stands Guard at School is the topic of a Facebook post that has gone viral, with nearly 17,000 hits in a matter of hours. Employ Veterans as Security at Schools is an idea being discussed on numerous websites and Facebook pages, with a combined total of several hundred thousand likes and comments in the less than a day since the idea was touted.
I’ve been reading, and thinking and doing my best to look at the issues of gun control and school shootings with an open mind in the wake of the Connecticut school shooting rampage. Mostly, I’ve been trying to separate the hysteria and facts, on both sides of the argument.
I simply can’t get on board with the idea of taking after Israel and arming every teacher. We can’t get enough qualified teachers in our schools as it is. Now we are going to add marksmanship to the requirements for a teaching certificate?
Passing stricter gun control laws with an eye toward preventing those with mental illness from legally obtaining weapons is an equally unworkable plan. That’s not because I disagree with the concept that those who are mentally unstable should not have access to firearms, but simply because of the privacy laws that would have to be bent to the breaking point in order to put those measures into effect.
I don’t think the answer is to ban all guns either, simply because then the only ones with guns, other than the police, will be the bad guys. This may be a surprise to some, but criminals aren’t overly concerned with breaking the existing laws so expecting more laws to have an impact is a bit naïve. Chicago is the proof that restricting legal gun ownership has the inverse of the intended effect. We are leading the nation in gun violence.
Most of what I have found in the media has been clearly in the camp of banning guns completely, an understandable knee-jerk reaction when we see the faces of twenty innocent children being mourned. But, this issue is not being covered fairly. I hate that I have to sound like a conspiracy-theorist, but the simple fact is the number of times an armed citizen stops the bad guys simply doesn’t get reported. For each instance I’ve highlighted below, there are dozens more stories where ordinary citizens prove responsible gun owners save lives. The fact that I had to search for these stories, that most of them never made the national news at all, and the ones that did left out the part where the average joe exercising his 2nd Amendment right was the hero tells me just how liberal and biased the national media has become.
Take the Pearl, Mississippi shooting in 1997 for example. In that case, a student upset over breaking up with his girlfriend boldly walked into a school armed with a shotgun. He killed his girlfriend and one other student then fled, intending to go to a Middle School and start shooting there, knowing the police would be busy at the High School he just left. The Vice-Principal, hearing the shots ran to his vehicle, where he had a duly registered, legally owned gun in his glove compartment. This educator loaded his weapon on the run and confronted the killer in the parking lot, holding a handgun to his head until police arrived.
In Garden City, California this past summer, a 65 year old woman opened fire on five masked gunmen who were attempting to rob her jewelry store. They fled the scene so fast they were literally tripping over each other to get away. The entire incident was caught on video. It is believed this is the same group that tried to rob another store one day later. In that second incident, one of the would-be armed robbers was shot in the face by that store owner. Let’s call this group slow learners, but they have seemed to learn their lesson finally as no other crimes or attempted robberies have been reported in the area with suspects matching their descriptions.
A few days before the Connecticut shooting, there was another attempt at mass murder in a busy shopping mall in Oregon. This incident did make the news, but the most interesting part of the story was omitted in the national coverage I found. To get the full story, I had to go back and find the local reports filed that day and the day after. A gunman walked into the mall and opened fire, killing two people. It seems his gun jammed, a weapon he stole from an acquaintance, and while he was trying to clear it a shopper with a Concealed Carry Permit drew down on the killer. This citizen did not fire, as he did not feel he could safely do so as there were too many other people around. At that point, the gunman saw he had a gun pointed at him according to witnesses and fled into a hallway and then a stairwell where he shot and killed himself.
Earlier this fall, Plainfield Police Chief John Konopek approached the school District 202 board to discuss placing gun safes in schools. The intention was to have the already present on-campus school resource officer have faster access to their AR-15 rifle in the case of a shooter in the building. For many reasons, including the simple logistics of coordinating with Joliet police, which has jurisdiction over one of the four District 202 high schools which was, incidentally, not covered in the initial plan, the proposal was rescinded by Chief Konopek. Board members had said that they couldn’t entertain an idea that covered some schools in the District, but omitted others before they received a written request to withdraw the proposal in part because “with the amount of media attention this topic has received I feel that some of the proposed security measures that would have been implemented have been compromised”.
Those who participated in an online petition to fight the idea claimed a victory, saying it was their efforts which caused the police chief to reconsider. They claim to have had just over 400 signatures. However, the community voiced widespread support of exploring the idea, evidenced by the comments attached to the numerous articles on various news organizations websites. Not surprisingly, calls for revisiting the topic have been floated in the wake of last week’s tragedy.
Then, this morning I found the story of a Tennessee Marine dad who has chosen to stand guard outside his kids’ school. He said he will be there for the remainder of this week, not in response to any reported threats, but simply to create a presence of reassurance and safety for the students, teachers and parents. I found this story after reading the fourth posting of the following idea.
I’ve been unable to track down the original poster, and it may be one of those things that has multiple near simultaneous sources. Judging from the speed with which it has exploded across numerous sites, it is something that has resonated with a lot of people. The fact that it addresses several national, pressing issues has a lot to do with how much traction the idea has. Sometimes, the answers really are this simple.
Instead of trying to arm teachers and administrators or amending or violating the Constitution, both of which are ideas it would take years of arguing and untold billions of dollars to bring to fruition, why not just hire veterans as armed security at all schools across the country? The comments on this idea are well salted with offers to take on the job for free, a sentiment that is all the more remarkable when weighed against a 30% unemployment rate for new veterans, according to June 2012 Forbes article. But, it should not be surprising as it would be nothing more than a continuation of the oaths to protect Americans these men and women already took.
Several people have even collected hard data and numbers, translating the idea into a workable plan. One person claimed it would cost less than $1.00 per day per student to employ two full time security guards at each and every school in the nation. I did my own research and found that number was accurate, given the following parameters taken from The Center For Education Reform:
Number of school children – 55,235,000
Number of K-12 schools – 132,656
Using the average school security officer salary of $41,000, per SimplyHired.com and a 180 day school year, that comes to $1.09 per child, while generating 265,312 new jobs. Other sites quoted the average national starting salary for school security guards between $29,000 and $31,000 per year, lowering the startup cost of this plan to $0.77 to $0.82 per student.
I can’t see a downside to this plan. It is not possible to guarantee the safety of all children in all schools all the time. But, for about $1.00 per day, we can go a long way towards securing that safety and employ over a quarter of a million veterans at the same time. Maybe then, when fears for our children are not driving the conversation, we can have a sane dialogue on gun violence in this country.
John Roberts
1:12 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Phyc check,make sure all benefits are in order,there are plenty of vets upset that the benefits are screwed up and it getting correct coverage,nationality plays a part as we bomb more countries and kill innocent relatives that might be related to some of the vets..as we have learned from past incidents where marines killed other marines,....In the end these are the same vets that put their lives on the line before just for the safety of others,these are the people who we trust the most during war..It is very amazing to me that we consider our troops to be the most honored people as long as their over somewhere else fighting but when they come home they are almost considered terrorists and even put on government watchlists as such labeled as citizens who have had special training,military knowledge,special weapons training....As of right now we have more troops killing them selves than we do dying in combat..Why because either they have killed people,or done some horrific things they can not deal with,war it's self and actions commited during war cause people to kill others ar themselves...
John Roberts
1:16 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
So this vets thing right now to me is not as good of an idea as hiring police officers or specially trained security to patrol the schools...can not be any "I thought he had a gun" crap by some idiot who makes minimum wage to give a crap..he won't in the end making poor wages... Top paid ,special trained security weather police or security.
Denise Williams
6:01 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
John, not sure what your point about vets is...are you saying the approx. 800,000 currently unemployed Iraq and Afghanistan vets are all damaged and not able to be trusted with weapons and/or around civilians, much less children? Do you think everyone who has gone to war is a PTSD ticking time bomb? Do you not understand everyone who sees combat is of course changed, but it is only a small percentage who have difficulty re-adjusting to civilian life after reintegration?
Do you have any idea what the 10,000 or so active Illinois Guardsmen do when they are not deployed? Do you know how many of them are possibly your neighbor? Do you have any idea how many cops are former military?
Finally, do you know how many MOS's there are that never see combat, much less serve in a war zone? Yet, every single one of them is trained on basic weapons and weapons safety. These men and women have already proven themselves willing to defend the ideals and people of the United States. Further, many would jump at the chance to stand guard over our nation's children. To them, it would be an honor. So much so, in the past 24 hours there are reports from scores of school districts across the country of vets voluntarily standing guard at schools this week.
John Roberts
8:25 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Well let me explain...As of right now the U.S. govern,ent is taking all weapons from soldiers when they come home...Why? Because we have more soldiers killing them selves than dying in combat..just look at the police,will county pays millions a year for police brutality..I know someone that got 250,000 from Joliet. Not saying all have mental problems but a lot do.after a little time back in the U.S.,after a phyc evaluation...Would not be too good if some ex soldier wants to get back at the U.S. for his benefits being messed up.Not sure how many vets you have actually talked to but I know quite a few. 60 to be close to the number of vets I know..and over half of them had insulin that was a week late getting tot hem,the VA did not order prescriptions until a week or 2 after they put in the order to the VA. I know vets that buy Insulin from the streets lady yeah like drugs Fing insulin you know the stuff that keeps diabetics alive,I have seen they buy OxyContin because their Norcos were not ordered for 2 th 3 weeks.i have seen people hurt in war that do not get what they need...I would give names to prove to you but that would place our vets in a bad position..I have seen vets that needed surgery not get it for months,ever see a man walk around with pain,after being in war and fighting for his country to find out his country is not taking care of him like they are supposed to...We have vets buying stuff off the streets to stay alive lady.
John Roberts
8:33 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Remember who most of these soldiers were,are... A lot of them come from broken homes,poor families,or we're gang members.kids that wanted to leave an abusive home..only some signed up for schooling...only a hand full that were doing good in their lives signed up for the military.and remember this..once you kill it gets easier to kill again as most people who have killed someone and lived with themselves will tell you.i had a operator that would tell ya." They didn't teach me to fight you they taught me how to kill you"....sure there are toes that have not seen combat but that's what the phyc eval would be for.to see how much combat or if any...I am not saying not to let them..but right now there is a greater chance that most have seen some kind of combat..we are in a war with 2 nations...and what happens when some of these vets are called back into action? Like at the beginning of the wars.
John Roberts
8:43 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Look I know a guy named scoot that was in vietnam..long ago wasn't it..well we fish down here at the Michigan beach here in Joliet the old beach club..this guy is ok for a bit..and no bull he goes back into a Vietnam mode lady...he will leave his fishing stuff rig there and run back to his car and hide,crouch down and leave..he was shot 14 times in vietnam...Yeah living in Joliet now for years and years after the war but at any given time he just snaps back...I have heard this guy yell stuff out and hit the ground lady...I have sen him crawl back to the car over rocks,through the tall grass...only thing I keep looking for is if he has a gun and starts shooting...you can not talk to him when he is like this at all...this is no joke...if you go by the Michigan beach and you see a black guy sitting in a chair fishing that's scooby because no one else but a few are allowed to fish there most of the people sneak and hide but me and scooby do not have to...this guy will be forever screwed up.the trees moving,big winds,noises in the woods all get him going..we were sitting in the yard next tot he beach club and he got freaked out and jumped behind some railroad ties,he started sweating,shaking,looking around like he was hearing things lady....he started crying....this shit is no joke..they don't call it a 1000 yard stare for nothing..I have seen it in person..he will kill someone if they freakhim out too bad while in an episode..
John Roberts
8:50 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
All you have stated is statistics and statistics can be wrong it is all according to who makes the report..you should know this already.i don't care how many soldiers there are could be 9 billion but that does not mean just because they are or we're soldiers that it's ok..Do you remeber the kid who came after the police and advanced upon them killing them at a store? How many soldiers are pissed off that when they left America was one way and now that their back more laws,more restrictions,and more violence against citizens..How many soldiers are on YouTube alone saying they can not believe the U.S. government,saying if ey knew it was going to be like this they would not have fought,or left,how many soldiers have been killed by police since returning,how many soldiers are speaking out against the government they fought for.How many soldiers have commited suicide I think it's like 1200 now...could be more...
Jerry
9:21 pm on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Every piece of media coverage I have heard or read in the aftermath of this tragedy quickly deteriorates to one of two points: either it's "we need more guns" or "get rid of all the guns". It's great to finally read something that presents an idea outside of these two knee-jerk reactionary responses that also doesn't necessitate re-writing the constitution or any other action on a national level. Finally, something worth having a conversation about and yet where is the conversation?
John Roberts
9:01 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Yeah what gets me is that a lot of people are against guns but right now in the middle of a crisis a man with a gun patrolling a school makes everyone feel safer...I am all for patrolling our schools with an armed personel but we have to make sure the people that are patrolling these children are not disgruntled.people find that the best way to "get back at govern,ent" is to do something catastrophic and that's bull it does nothing but make more laws...people who have no affiliation to government,no political ties,to me would be better than having someone connected to government or politics..in these times politics can be deadly.
Denise Williams
12:11 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
John, I wasn't even going to respond to your rambling, but there are things you've said that are simply so wrong, I had to. You touch on so many topics, and on each one you are so far off base you are delusional. Unless you have served yourself, I guarantee I am personally acquainted with more vets and active duty military than you ever will be. The vast majority of current vets and soldiers signed up because they believe it is their honor to wear the uniform of this country. They consider their time in service to be a duty they were fortunate to fulfill. Not a single one of them signed up to fight for the government, it is for the ideals and the people of this country they were and are willing to stand.
'Nam vets are a special case. Many didn't have a choice, served in hell and came home to a different hell. Yet, it is 'Nam vets who started and fill the ranks of the Patriot Guard Riders and other groups who are guaranteeing current vets don't face the same things they did. There is no greater proof that the majority not only function, but are still among the best and most honorable people among us.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. There is a reason for the saying "Not everyone who came home lived". I have a family member who is no different than your friend. There are too many like them, even one is too many, but they are the exception, not the rule.
The only thing worse than not supporting our military is lumping them all together as damaged goods.
John Roberts
12:34 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Excuse me what part was I wrong on? These exceptions you are talking about need to be evaluated before they are considered exceptions, ..Now I sak you this what is the difference between Nam and Iraq and Afghanistan...War is War there is no exception in war.you shoot people,blow em up,...get it?...saying I am delusional then agreei with me then saying there are exceptions..???.?....look up how many soldiers have killed them selves,look up the rule where soldiers guns are being taken,try to discredit me..I read way more and check out more things than Joliet Patch...I know vets that have bought their prescriptions off the streets because benefits were not there.dont call me a liar....you have family like my friend but yet you say it is ok..oh wait exceptions...Tell me what's the difference between killing someone in Nam than Iraq,Afghanistan....there isn't its killing..You can't take some things back..Take a look at YouTube lady or don't you wanna hear what they have to say.....
John Roberts
12:36 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Ya know a soldier said it best on YouTube...."Americans wanna hang a yellow ribbon and have a parade and and put on a show,but when soldiers speak they dont want to listen"
John Roberts
1:06 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
You call it ramblings..lol no there is not one thing that I said that is not true...What VA hospital was shut down because of the treatment of soldiers?How many soldiers have gotten into a gun fight with police,are you really going to ignore these things...in fantasy land you might be able to go ok yeah there soldiers..it's ok..but not here in the real world...Would you want a soldier running around your kids school with a gun after comming back from Iraq where he still is in war mode..always looking over his shoulder like a lot of soldiers do..How many specials are there on tv about soldiers still looking around the corner every where they go,scoping people out...maybe you should pay attention to these things they are saying...parinoid to come out and function right.....and know what happens to them..they end up on YouTube saying that they got messed with by the govern,ent for going on the air..or you want to ignore this too..and call me delusional...want me to post some links for you or are you able to go check it put for yourself...I am a grown man and it is hard for me to sit and hear their stories and their fears without choking up..listening to them not ignoring them...
Denise Williams
12:14 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Finally, of all the potential conversations to have on this idea, you have taken it in a direction I hadn't even imagined. Considerations of cost, how even $1.00 per day per student would be budgeted, were where I expected this to go. Or, talk about having armed security at our schools. This? It's just mind blowing, but I guess it is good to remember there are people who have no understanding of who and what our military men and women are and what motivates them to serve.
John Roberts
12:41 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Just because it is an idea does not make it right..You are taking me all wrong...ere are honorable soldiers...All of the soldiers are honorable....but a mind is powerful enough to kill you and others...it plays tricks on people..When did I ever say all soldiers would snap..your putting worlds into my mouth...You try to discredit what I say and then in a form you agree with me...are you delusional?do you really think yeah we will just let them be a bunch of soldiers with guns that MOST suffer from PTSD...they will tell you if you listen..lol
John Roberts
12:48 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
What kind of thinking is it not to have ANY person that patrols a school to not have a phyc evaluation..All of the things I have mentioned in my comments are real lady..from buying stuff off the streets,from being shell shocked and freaking out,to having killed people in war.all of it but you say it is not so...well what exactly are you talking about with these vets...maybe you are asking the wrong question....But oh wait...you have to be careful what you ask some soldiers because while you think so high.y of some people you might not think so highly of them after they tell you what they did...am I lying about that too...am I lying about you don't ask some soldiers about the stuff they did or they take offense? What exactly ami delusional on..you still have not said so..but you call me delusional...Lmao...you want to talk about ideas then talk about the whole idea and who it involves and the whole show,it is not safe to assume...spell it know what it spells....ass u me... Everytime we assume it makes an ass of u and me...we can not just assume that any soldiers that want to patrol a school is ok...you will be made an ass of if proper steps are not taken.. Your not wanting to talk about the whole thing is not taking the proper steps..it is one sided thinking...Like the choice between A & B ......then there is C....hide,ignore all the facts you want..Ill live in the real world thank you
John Roberts
12:54 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
No understanding..what is a soldier with a gun at a school?..armed security...why don't you ask some of the soldiers why a lot of them signed up...Schooling being paid for was one of the main reasons...Until the war started then how many wanted out?..how many thought they would never go to war?....ok now the 1 dollar a day per student..That's 30 a month..how many kids are signed up for free lunch..why because they can't afford daily lunch?.or did you not want to talk about that part also?lol that not part of your world?...
Denise Williams
12:59 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
John, click on my name. Go back and read some of what I have written in the past nearly two years. You are simply wrong that most soldiers suffer from PTSD. There is a huge difference between PTSD and the expected adjustment everyone who has been in war faces. And for the record, the number of soliders who have committed suicide is just over 6,000 which yes, is in fact higher than the number KIA. The facts are just starting to come out that the number one and two causes are the anti-malaria vaccines and the drugs given to our soldiers. These are huge problems and much work needs to be done, starting with not assuming all who have been to war are PTSD ticking time bombs and not marginalizing our returned and returning warriors because of your mistaken understandings of the issues. This article is about employing our vets and protecting our kids. There is no one, no segment of society more willing and able to protect and serve our communities than those who truly know what the words honor and duty mean. I am now done.
John Roberts
1:15 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Ok smarty and how do you tell if a soldier is suffering from PTSD? A phyc evaluation would be a great start...that's all I was saying...yeah it's a malaria vaccine that's doing it..right not the killing of children,blowing up whole families,seeing bodies all over the street in pieces no that wouldnt have any thing to do with it...Killing people you did not mean to nothing to do wi it either?what do you think happens in war?passing candy out? Being shot at while running through neighborhoods has nothing to do with it?..being the one who gives orders and people get killed nope wouldn't think that has anything to do wit it...Yeah it's a vaccine..you just keep believing what you are told by your government and everything will be ok just fine and dandy....the fact that what you want to stand up for is not what you get to stand up for wouldn't effect someone either right?....is it a vaccine that makes police officers kill em selves too..? I wouldn't think that seeing bodies cut up,shot,children killed,wouldn't have an effect on them either...Now you know as well. As the rest of the people I am not lying..is this not the truth? There is a high police suicide rate too lady..and some of them see the same things soldiers do...
John Roberts
1:22 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Police have been killing them selves just like soldiers..and police do get phyc evaluations...you can not ignore this...people running around our schools with guns do in fact need to be checked regularly...it is idiotic to think that it would just be ok..no requirements..you need to be more realistic..
Jerry
3:04 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
John, much like the author herself, I think I am done with this debate. One thing I will say though...take her advice and read some of her other writings. Then tread VERY lightly before you start preaching the realities of war to this author.
John Roberts
8:09 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Look ignore it all you want..I have close family that was in wars,I have young family getting ready to join the military.shipping out Feb 23.I have friend that were in wars..but you have to be realistic.ya know there is more to the military than "Go America" and you know it..I am making a point about the PTSD and all the stuff these soldiers have been through..yeah I might be outright with my words but I am speaking the truth..what kid of a name does it give the soldiers if we have some snapping put at a school? Don't people think that would cause more chaos? An evaluation is all I have been saying and it got put to me like I am against the military and I am not.All the facts I said are true,have been proven,and are realistic points from PTSD,to suicide,to shoot outs,to being disgruntled because of health care and benefits,to police suicide,to weapons being taken by government because of suicides,it is my responsibility to ask these questions.these soldiers just ain't going to be in Newtown they will be everywhere,I am making the point of security,that is different than military,you will get a terrorist charge if a teen gets into it with a military guard, these are realistic points.people need to wake the hell up.the more we ask government the more they give and the more they ask,the more they take,.it all sounds great to let vets take care of it,sounds patriotic protecting the children of America but there are 2 sides to everything weather people wanna talk about it or not
John Roberts
1:17 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
I totally agree with them laying their lives on the line once and will do it again..for sure never said they wouldn't.
John Roberts
1:34 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
And remember this bad things have happened in the name of creating jobs...the whole creating jobs thing is dangerous,by anyone...creating jobs for power..yep created a polluted nuclear ocean,creating jobs for fuel,contaminated ground....just remeber that destroying the world would create jobs too...and people would sign up and collect a weekly paycheck lady...I am so sick of the it creates jobs bullcrap...that what politicians say to get citizens to fall for dumb crap...yeah we need more oil wells contaminating the oceans..it creates jobs...we place ourselves more important that the earth we live on in the name of creating jobs...
Jerry
2:20 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
John, trying to follow your comments was starting to make my hair hurt so I didn't read every one of them word for word so forgive me if I missed something. First, I don't think Denise ever said that the only qualification for these positions would be that the applicants were veterans. Of course there would be background checks, military service record reviews, psych evaluations, etc. In her reply to one of your polydirectional comments Denise had stated that she expected dialogue about budgeting and affordability of the program, yet you seem to scold her for not wanting to discuss this. Odd. Anyway, yes I agree that many wouldn't be able to afford $30 per month per child...but remember, the population at large shoulders the burden of school costs not just the families who have children enrolled. Spreading that dollar a day across the entire populace of the school district would make this figure barely noticeable to most. The real issues I see with this are 1) having what is essentially a military presence at our schools. Is this necessary? Is this the image we want to show the world...do we want everyone thinking this is what freedom looks like? 2) this would be a program administered, on some level, by government. I can see everyone wanting to get their fingers into this pie, including Homeland Security. Suddenly that dollar a day cost multiplies by ten and only "friends of the program" get hired. I think this is the direction this dialogue needs to go.
John Roberts
2:26 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
You are correct..I know it is hard to follow me but denying what I have said and calling me delusional pissed me off....I know what I am talking about..all I was saying is that a phyc eval and some further steps need to be taken before we ok soldiers to patrol schools and named some reasons why and she took it as I think all soldiers are crazy and need evaluating...and that's not what I said or how i put it..as I dais before we can talk about a dollar we need to talk about reality
John Roberts
2:31 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
I do agree funding is an issue and spreading the dollar yes will require more politicians to have their hands in the pot..which will cause more political discussion...and debates at the costs of millions that could be used properly on true security..You are also correct about is this the image we want to give the world...People,our own citizens will cry out its martial law,it's becoming a police state....which will cause more political debate...as I have said before us adults have complicated ourselves right out of simplicity...This soldier that went to the school thought simply,he is trained,he is a soldier,he has put his life on the line before for other men and will be there for the children which are the future....And showed up at a school with a gun..now complication is this soldier is lucky he was not shot..he is lucky he was not taken to jail for laws banning guns from schools..he is lucky he is not being interrogated by the government for being a soldier....am I not correct?
smith
2:36 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
God bless Texas...Land of the free down there...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/stop-school-shootings-by-letting-teachers-fire-back-say-texas-officials/
Denise Williams
4:14 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
smith - and our neighbor to the east, Indiana. So far, I've found three places that will offer free training to anyone who has a FOID and a letter from a school that they are an employee and will be allowed to carry their weapon in school with completion of the trainings. Still, I'd rather not arm teachers. Their job is to teach, let someone else have the job of security in schools.
BillTexas
6:49 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Wow, this John Roberts is a freak!! Anyway, I had been thinking that maybe the National Guard could be used to secure the schools. I am not sure how feasible it would be but they are already getting a salary from the government. Any thoughts?
John Roberts
7:52 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
A freak lol..yeah that's the solution call the national guard out.lol...wrap some barb wire around the school too?..a couple of road blocks?security checks?..armed trained security that is also trained for child,teenage mentality...would be more the answer..is all I am saying..I brought up a lot of good points on soldiers that no one seems to want to discuss.and I am a freak...look I love my country I would not want to live any where else in the world..not even if it became a military country...got it?..the people,the citizens need to be more responsible for ther own lives..we scream out " we the people" then beg the government to deal with stuff that should of been taken care of by common sense...taking certain precautions is all I was saying then that got brought into question and I explaind why I think the precautions need to be taken. I am not calling out a group. I am saying all personnel that are armed and guarding the children need to be evaluated,teens attitudes can get them shot,some are smart asses and might just not be having a good day..and what happens..look hitting an armed forces personnel is way way worse than getting into it with a security guard..like terrorist charges buddy...are you people not thinking....think out side the box..look at the whole picture...military control..not same as security control..way different..and some that will patrol just came back from war...military control is military control
Denise Williams
7:06 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
BillTexas, in order for the National Guard to deploy stateside, they need to be called out. Then, they are a temporary force. We need a permanent solution, not just a temporary fix while everyone is focused on the issue. Individual school districts could hire security without waiting for an order from the governor, which is how the National Guard is activated. In other words, this is a solution that could be implemented right now.
John Roberts
8:24 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Know what call me what ever ya want delusional,freak what ever you want but still yet not a one of you have told me what is wrong with my questions,not a one of you have said anything,you try to discredit me by calling them ramblings but have not proved me wrong on any of it,nor had any real knowledge to go against it,everything I mentioned is true and all of you know it,I am a realist,I do not ignore the things I do not like,some of you are what the hell is the matter with this country,just ignore it,be sheltered,just think it is going to be ok and it will,..it will all work out mentality...it's time people start asking the questions and talk about the thing they do not like...and what happens in war is definatley one of them,especially some of the soldiers are going to be around kids at a school..Now we have had soldiers do things in retaliation to what has happened in war have we not?..but everyone wants to ignore it..why? Because it ain't happening here?..I can not believe the one sided thinking..why? Just because their soldiers? really?..I have brought up some very logical questions that none of you want to realize are legitimate questions...Spoon fed government Sheeple,keep on asking government for everything see how it keeps ending up...you ask them to patrol the boarder they built a wall,still can not stop it,tax you to death for it,and now keeps you in if you Owe the IRS.lmao....but just ignore that too..
my conscience
8:17 am on Friday, December 21, 2012
The National Guard was responsible for one of the worst school shootings on record, at Kent St. University. As for John Roberts, try to understand what he is saying not how he is saying it.
Regarding this idea of using the returning vets to secure the schools, I understand the frustration Denise feels but the overall concept is wrong in so many ways it appears ridiculous.
Shawn Dyer
4:22 pm on Sunday, January 6, 2013
I agree with veterans as School security. It helps them re-integrate into society barring any signs of PSTD or TBI that would possibly preclude them from owning a weapon. And as far as charging the students an extra 77 cnets to over a dollar, why don't we lower the wages of the administrators in the school districts, especially our own here in Plainfield to pay for the piece of mind for the parents. Most of the veterans coming back have tactical experience depending on their MOS or job description and could actually train with and be part of a Police rapid response team in the event of an active shooter situation. Just my two cents.
P.S. Thank you for being a responsible journalist and searching for all of the facts when writing an article such as this. You have my profound respect fordoing so.