Illinois needs to clean house big time.

I don't know where you're getting your info, but that's a lot of hooey.

False facts.

That is quite a list! Any concrete examples? Sounds like fear mongering to me. Let me just pick a few from your list...
#1. Tax the poor? Not quite sure how that is accomplished since 50% of Americans don't pay taxes and the top 10% pay for 90% of all taxes. Sounds like "the rich" pay a lot of taxes.
Oh, and by the way, don't forget about Obama's chummy friend Jeffery Emmilt (you know head of his jobs growth committee GE CEO), how much did GE pay in taxes?
$0, and where are all those jobs?? Overseas. Great choice I would say as a job adviser, as they laugh about "guess those jobs weren't so shovel ready".
I especially love #12..
I believe it was Eric Holder's justice department who refused to file charges against the Black Panthers in 2008 outside of a voting place with billy clubs intimidating voters. And who are these MILLIONS of Americans who have no IDs? I guess they never purchased liquor or attended an R rated movie either.
#6 Highways, bridges and sewer systems are a state funded, paid for by IL taxes and local taxes. Oh wait, IL is 120 BILLION in debt.
Maybe it would be a good idea to get our fiscal house in order, both locally as well as federally. I think most Americans do not have a problem paying taxes as long as it is not wasted. Raising taxes on the rich, as proposed, would be spent in less than 2 weeks, at the rate we are going. Not a solution.

Hey,
What do you know. This is a liberal troll poster. This same comment was posted 18 times in at least 8 states. Please take the Soro's money you are earning to post your robo-comments and buy all of the medication your doctor reccomends. When you skip doses or medications it seems you enter an alternate reality world. Just my advice.

Thank you darling wonder Mitt! Thanks for blessing us with inspiration of inherited wealth. Thank you for teaching us nobody should pay more tax just because they hide money, tax-free, in the Caymans & Bermuda & Switzerland & Andorra. Thanks for having fools pay their taxes, while you live in luxury. Thanks for building an elevator for your cars & limos in one of your 7 palaces, which also gives us inspiration to be like you: accomplished & not being afraid to demonstrate loyalty to yr fellow accomplished friends with the promise to further lower their taxes. And also thank the Ryan budget author for promising to reduce yr tax rate to 1%. After all 13% tax rate sure beats the 37% rate those on salaries must pay. It'ss inspiring for all of us not yet rich as you; not rich like yr daddy, not rich as yr wife or boys. Thank you for choosing a running mate who is also a millionaire from the inheritance from his great-grandfather, the road builder, whose company was passed down to his son & then his son, Paul's Daddy afforded Mr. Ryan a life in Wash.DC & inspiration to lower taxes on his multimillionaire mom & dad & all those whom God has blessed. You go Mitt! Why should Americans wait for the government to give a measly retirement to those who paid for it, when you show how to take care of yourself? Why give people Obamacare just because people without $ get sick? If God wants them sick, why go against God's will? O Mitt, how inspiring you are! Pay no attention to envy!

Where are you getting your info?
1 - 50% of people pay not Income Tax
2 - the best way o keep jobs in the USA is to not over tax those who take a risk and run a business that then employees the average worker.
3 - I will have to say this is a tough questions, most economists say that trade agreements produce jobs in the USA (conservative & liberal economists), BUT there are some who say the opposite. I am not sure who is telling the truth.
4 - It is accutarial science that says the more that insurance companies have to cover the more that it will cost. I favor deletion of prexisting conditions but there HAS to be a cap on the max payout for our insurance, otherwise it again just adds to the cost. That means when we take out insurance the individual should be able to determine oif they want $1.0 mil, $2.0 mil, $5.0 mil max lifetime coverage.
5 - Lets look at the politicians, which party has their kids in private schools (Obama) and which party has their kids in public schools (Ryan).
6 - President Obama had a chance to spend $800 bil on infrastructure but instead he spent most of it on do nothing jobs.
7 - The Republicans have passed much of the enviornmental laws
8 - WAKE UP! The price of oil on the world market is controlled by GOVERNMENT OWNED OIL COMPANIES.
9 - This smoke and mirrors that is from the President.
10 - It is President Obama who is trying to divide the people in the USA. One could go on and on about how he tries to split our people with half truths.

Are talking about the folks who haven't been elected yet----or the team in office now?? Romney/Ryan haven't had a chance to screw up anything yet! We certainly haven't seen any kind of improvement over the past three years ( I voted for them) so I'm ready to try a new team. They're not my first choice as a Republican ticket, but it's time to try a new direction. If it doesn't work (again), I'll be switching parties (again)!

Any person who has not seen that our economy has managed to move forward while the Republicans in Washington and every state across the nation have tried to sabotage it's recovery to put down the President's efforts is a fool or hasn't read a legitimate newspaper. The Republican Party's leader made a pledge the day after the President was sworn in to undermine his every economic policy. Most Americans put their back to such nonsense and went about their business, but there are always those who have to play the game...you sound like one of them. Did you forget the confidence shown in the stock market...it has DOUBLED since Bush-Cheney left office.

Good job, Freda - You're right on all points!

You're also cuckoo.
Everything you posted is 100% wrong (try getting your 'news' from somewhere besides the wacko socialists at MSNBC)

Interesting. Where is this information posted on the Romney / Ryan website?

Your smoking something.

Your smoking something if you believe all that, and I can afford to vote for that and will.

What rock did you crawl out from under? What non-sense!

Freeda, How do you have time to work? You put this dribble in Patch articles from South Carolina, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, Missouri and Michigan. Funny, most of them, like this article, has nothing to do about the Presidential race.
By the way, you and Fred should get a lawyer. Someone by the name of Meadow Lane seems to have copied your responses as well. They copied you word for word in other Patch editions.

A dozen very well written points. We all need to look carefully at what is really happening in ourgovernment.

ROTFLMAO-I am a single woman and I don't want to pay for you feminists that have made your own life choices. Talk about vote tampering how the hell did Quinn ever win the election in Illinois-oh that's right they wouldn't let the Military vote count. They couldn't get them sent out on time-they only had 6 months. Talk to Quinn and leave the vote tampering to him-the democrats are the best. We cannot afford a close election-that is how the liberals win. I like to think that most women are smarter than you-of course I lived in Wisconsin most of my adult life. I used to laugh at the morons in Illinois...until I moved here.

Have you ever bothered to actually read the plan? I doubt it! You don't have to like this plan, but do not act as if we are not in a crisis! We are! Years are flying by and our problems are increasing 10 fold! We must deal with them! Everyone open your eyes, this has nothing to do with what side of the isle you think you are on, we are in trouble and we have to address it NOW! And it will not be easy!

A working Mother you say. Do you have a husband who supports you or do you rely on the surrogate Givernment to play that role like millions of others.

So who should be held responsible? The teachers who paid into the system for years and are already retired?

Christine,
State employees are also tax payers, which so many seem to forget. For decades our politicians provided state services, but were never honest enough to tell us that taxes were nowhere near enough to pay for them. That would have been too difficult to admit, so instead, they financed them by "borrowing" or more accurately, stealing funds from the pensions systems. The "unfunded liabilities" of the pension systems are exactly the same kind of obligation as the $8 billion or whatever the current number is in unpaid "current" bills - to vendors, hospitals, doctors, etc. The only difference is the pension debt is not due now, but rather over the coming decades. It's still a debt, a legal obligation. Rather than looking for ways to avoid it, how about having our crack financial geniuses in Springfield work on the least painful way to make up for decades of theft?

Do you understand that much of the 'borrowing' that would prevent, would be cutting off the flow of funds that the same IL teachers union lobbied the state to pay to them NOW, in the form of yearly education funding from the state to the districts, instead of into their own pension system?

The teachers union must think its members and fellow residents are idiots if they think they can get away with trying to blame the state for what the union itself asked the state to do.

I can't honestly believe every teacher in the union supports what is going on. I would hope they are able to vote in a union representative that tells them what is going on, and not one who just tells them what is needed to maintain the status quo.

Quote specifics, and change that disgusting innuendo of a screen-name while you're at it. All of the trouble we've had is due to Republicans refusing to work on anything that matters unless the wealthy get a tax break out of it. Investment is down due to recalcitrance among investors to improve anything under the current administration. Any thinking person realizes what is going on (where are all of the jobs that the "job-creators" were going to create with the Bush tax cut extensions?) but the fact that so many people are disgusted by the system is a key part of the current GOP's methodology. The attack on women (legitimate rape?), the twisting or outright reediting of the President's words, and the lack of even a sane discussion on gun control, are sign's of how little they actually care for anything but a quick profit and attempting to drag us back to a 1950's that never really existed.

Sorry Olddeegee.I use my real name like you are supposed to .I 'm feel sorry for you that you have such a dirty mind.

Edward......the state developed the formula for the pension plans, what they pay, what employees pay. However, the state never paid a payment, because they decided projects such as saving the dragonfly was more important to spend it on. The employees paid their part...please don't blame this on the teachers. The state will never, ever tell you what really happened, but rather make the teachers look really bad......follow the paper trail!!!!

There are federal protections for pensions that disappear, kind of like an FDIC-insured bank (it's called PBGC). Unfortunately, they only protect private pensions. Public pensions have no such protection.

In addition, most people on Illinois pensions have no other plan that they pay into -- they pay in 8% instead of the 4.1% that people paid into social security this year or the year before. Many are also not part of any union.

Mary Van...I don't blame teachers entirely but wouldn't you think they would have been checking on their "account balances" to see that the money was being put away? And, to a degree I blame them a bit for "taking" in that their pensions are way in excess of what others with comporable education levels and hours worked get. What I am really saying is that there needs to be reform/cuts to the payouts to something fair and that we can afford.We are bankrupt...doesn't that ring a bell...broke! We can't pay those hefty obligations and the taxpayers are not the States last resort to make good the commitment after they squandered the money. Let's be real and be fair to all parties in the making of the final decision and the cuts that are sure to be necessary.

What most people don't seem to realize is that there is no other retirement for state workers. We never had the option to pay into social security, but I would have gladly. Besides, I would have had a larger paycheck because I wouldn't have been paying 8% of my salary into a pension plan.

Personally, I decided to take a salary at significantly less than the private sector offered because the the pension made up for it in the long run and I liked the idea of contributing to the scientific community.

Now, of course, I'm kicking myself for trusting the state to pay its portion while I paid my 8% over the past 15 years. Instead the state gave me an IOU and offered tax incentives to Sears and Caterpillar, bought drugs from Canada that couldn't be imported, expanded tollways, etc. with that money.

Yet I, as a potential pensioner, am being painted as the villain because I don't want to pay for everyone's improvements twice.

To Edward:

A law preventing double-dipping on Illinois pensions was signed by Governor Quinn in January.

Hmmm.......There you go again. Man, you must have had problems with teachers in the past. Is that why you have so much dislike for them?

Isn't that the part of the pension reform that the GOP objects to? The Democrats keep trying to take Chicago out of the pension plan, but the GOP refuses to force local government to pay the matching funds for pensions.

They want Chicago to pay the matching employer funds for the downstate school teacher.

The GOP talks the talk, but when it comes to enacting a non-socialist plan, it's the Democrats who are leading the charge and the GOP that is balking.

Speaking of doing research, felons don't lose their voting rights in Illinois unless they're incarcerated.

They lose their voting rights while *currently* incarcerated. Not all felons are incarcerated.

401K....are you absolutely crazy? I lost the majority of my 401K, and it hasn't come back. 401K's and IRA"S were originally give as bonuses to CEO's retiring from large corporations. They are supplemental, and should not be used as only retirement income.

Mary Van - Put it under your mattress...I don't care, but the current system is absolutely not sustainable.

Jason...you ring the bell! Even if we add in interest compounded and the like it wouldn't have taken a math whiz to figure out that a teacher, who can spend thirty years collecting a retirement, didn't put in enough money to grow and make the system fair and workable. They knew they had a gravy train deal and said nothing. They didn't check to see that any funding took place and sound the alarm and now...we taxpayers are expected to bail them out. Where did all those "brains" go initially when the program was implemented and just whose fault is it that the money isn't there? Certainly not the property tax payers. I say honor the pension theme but reduce the pensions by half at the minimum. Let the teachers and other state employees file a law suit naming their Unions who should ante up for the other half.

Edward, 'you' taxpayers aren't expected to bail out the pensions.

The pensions are cashing in the IOUs on the money that went to keeping your property taxes low, kids in school, roads repaired, etc.

They've been crying foul on this ever since the state reduced its payments. The problem is that nobody else cared until it impacted them. So they kept voting the same kind of people into office and reaping the personal benefits.

Finally, unions have nothing to do with pensions. Illinois state law prohibits collective bargaining on public employee pension benefits.

Christopher...you seem like reasonable person so let me propose two possibilities regarding your comment that "we" used "your" money for all kinds of things that kept our taxes down and gave us bennies of one kind or another and therefore, we owe you. Now, you got the bennies as well as the rest of us including the property tax lowering and all those bennies you claim your money went for as it was ripped off under the guise of an IOU. Simply said then, you, having benifitted from the bennies should agree that you are not entitled to *all* your money back. To give it all to you means you got the bennies and the money. You double dip and that isn't fair is it.

My second point is about "them" taking your money...in fact it seems like you never got the money. It was never given over and put in an account in your name/s. If you never received it, you never owned it and it couldn't have been taken from you could it. What I think is fair is to reduce the pension payouts to somnething more inline with reality, overhaul the entire program to name a starting point. And, for those who will not get what they planned on, I say it is regretable and they will have to adjust just like so many others of us have.

It's true that we all benefitted from the other expenses. What I meant is that any pain needs to be shared, just like the gains were. People keep saying that the pensions need to be cut, eliminated, etc., but the pensions aren't the problem. Illinois has a debt problem, not a pension problem.

They didn't take our money, but they did give us an IOU. With a guaranteed interest rate of 8%, to boot.

The interest is what's killing the state now, and attempts to borrow money at lower rates (paying off one credit card with another at a lower rate, essentially) have been blocked by Republicans. Whether or not that's a good thing, I don't know.

It's sad. I have to pay my dentist up-front, then the state reimburses me later. *MUCH* later. I recently received a $200 check to cover my dentist visit from nine months ago. It included a second check for $12 because they have to pay interest on any debts if they're not made within 30 days.

They're making the same interest payments to doctors, therapists, contractors, etc.
Most of our debt at this point is interest accrual, and of course, it's going to get worse.

Well Christopher let me say this in as meaningful a way as I can. I really do feel for all you people who at this stage of your life have to worry about your retirement and how you will live and pay your bills. I've been in the "worry bucket" and well know how stressful it can be. That being said, there is the tough decision facing people of Illinois. Do we bail out the scum bags we have in Springfield and let them go on wasting, corrupting and power grabbing all at our expense OR do we make them solve this problem they created in a way that is acceptable to all and expose them for what they are and hopefully send them packing at election time. I think most feel as I do...feel your pain but well know that the taxpayers must take a stand or face more of the same. I'm sorry to have to say you pensioneers are stuck in the middle. It is a forced choice the taxpayers face. I personally do not think this State will do anything more than declare bankruptcy sometine in the near future.

All State Workers pay into their pension plans, but not all take their pensions. Many take their husband/wive's pensions; some die; some take other pensions they have paid into. Are you suggesting this is like a savings account and those who pay into the plan should be paid back the funds they pay into the plan if it is not use.
A 401K style plan would not work any better if the state did not pay its share.

I wish i received 44 % of my salary and retire at 60.

Cops and firefighters can retire after 20 years even if they are still perfectly capable of working a desk job.

Heck, anyone, regardless of whether they're in social security or in a pension, can retire at five years instead of 20.

There are three parts of the puzzle that have to be presented:

. retirement age
. percent of income that will be received
. years put into the plan

I don't know anything about the police/firefighter pension, so I'm not sure what their retirement age requirements or payouts are. But saying that they can retire after twenty years is meaningless by itself.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But there's not enough information to say that you're right.

I do believe that the pensions need some reform, but I don't think that all pensioners are villains that deserve to be punished.

For example, I support the cost-shifting of matching pension contributions to local government because it will curb pre-retirement raises used to guarantee larger pension payments. I also support a reasonable retirement age (retiring at 50 is ridiculous).

You could have had a pension like that, if you'd chosen to be a public servant. That's why I chose that path and make half of what I was offered in the private sector.

As far as the 401K goes, the plans the state offers don't allow you pick and choose individual investments. You have a few investment funds to choose from.

Christopher, if your 401k is bad, then you need to make other investments on your own.

My what? I'm not part of a union.

My job title is Technical Program Manager at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications. I've had offers from the private sector for double my salary that I have turned down because of the promise of a pension.

Regardless, the Congressional Budget Office released a report that showed educated people made more in the private sector, and uneducated made more in the public sector.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/30/federal-pay-vs-private-sector-compensation/

What studies? anyuone can say "studies" but without specifics it is just Saran wrap. My colleagues and I are all getting less than in the private sector..20 to 40 % less.

This was secondary to social security though, right? Illinois pensions replace social security.

That does suck though, and I'm sorry that happened.

On the bright side, private pensions have more government regulation and are more protected by PBGC insurance now, so this kind of thing is less likely to happen in the future.

And every person in the private sector thinks everyone is out to game the system and lies, I guess.

So the fact that I actually received a job offer at twice my salary, multiple times, is baloney? I was just dreaming it all?

One reason people don't take these job offers is that they are 'stuck' with their pensions. Once you have 10 years or more in, it's hard to get out. You won't get much from your pension, and if you ever decide to collect your pension you barely get any social security. So then in your new job you also have to contribute even more to an IRA or 401k, which means that your salary is essentially lower and the pay increase you thought you were getting isn't as big as it originally seemed.

In poker they call it 'pot-commited.'

And yet you were just wishing that you could retire at age 60 with 44% of your salary.

So you don't really wish that and were just spouting off hyperbole?

I trusted the state pension more because it was constitutionally guaranteed. I know a lot of people who lost private pensions and I didn't want to risk that. I have friends who lost significant portions of their retirement savings in a 401k.

My plan was to retire at 55 with my 30 years in the system (which would give me a 46.2% pension, or about $40K/year) and try to start my own business. And there was, of course, the written promise of health coverage from age 55 until Medicare kicked in.

I'm sorry that you don't believe me. I can't do anything about that.

I can tell you that if the plans changed I will invoke my 'golden parachute', and that's going to screw the taxpayers even more.

See, some of the plans have a constitutionally guaranteed provision that allows us to pull our pensions and move them to a 401k or 403b. So if my pension is threatened, I'll pull the ripcord and take it all out. At that point the state is obligated to pay its portion as well.

I'll walk away with everything the state should have given me over time, and the state will be left with a run on the bank and an even worse problem.

So ultimately, no, it's not horrible for me. But people might end up cutting off their noses just to spite their faces.

If you receive *any* public pension you get very limited social security. You also don't get social security death benefits from a spouse.

It's called the 'Windfall Elimination Provision', is a federal law, and was passed in 1983.

speak of the devil...
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/Money-Talks-Illinois-Pension-Reform-Walks-Thanks-To-SEIU-and-peaker-Mike-Madigan